What is the most difficult question for a dispensationalist?

[Ted]

As the subject suggests, I am on the hunt for very difficult questions that dispensationalists cannot properly answer with Scripture. I would request that a long drawn-out knowledge of some Bible concept not be necessary for the dispensationalist (you know how deep their theology is...) I want something that with just a few Scriptures (that even the dispensationalists can understand), their point of view (theology) can be refuted. Who would like to go first? Perhaps we could even vote on the one who supplies the most iron-clad question/answer. I think this is a vital tool for those trying to reach their dispensationalist buddies...

Blessings, Ted

[plymouthrock!]

If you're asking us, I say never quit. If we are the holders of the truth, we should present it at every opportunity. You never know, he may come around.

[Ted]

Thanks guys! Duncan, I don't bother to go into Revelation except for chapters 1 and 22 regarding time - it is a waste of time tring to paddle through their sea of literalism. Plymouth, I have the same list of questions. It would be nice if a short, sweet and simple answer was provided for each. Chuck, your response to me was very similar to emails I have sent to my dispie "friends." I will look into those links you supplied. Surprisingly, one of the best books I have seen regarding Israel and the church is Hans K. Rondelle's "The Israel of God in Prophecy." Although 7th day Adventist in nature, it does a good job in destroying the separation of Israel and the church. Of course, the odds in getting a dispie to read 7th day Adventist material is similar to, let me think, uhhhh, nothing! Good question Nate! I think I am about done dealing with this dispy guy, but he justs keeps coming back not seeking truth but seeking to justify his position. My new question is should I stop dealing with him? I really hate to be the one to call it quits - that would seemingly give him the victory after all of his badgering. I guess God would know, huh?

[Duncan]

The beast was "about to come" Rev. 17:8 NASB when John wrote (cf. 1 John 2:18). Since the beast fights against Jesus at the Second Coming (Rev. 19:11-21) that meant the second coming was about to happen. That the NASB is translating Rev. 17:8 correctly is shown by the fact that there was just the short reign of one ruler between the then ruling king and the soon coming beast, Rev. 17:7-11.

Now If they try to say the kings here are kingdoms, fine. That would mean the present kingdom was Rome and then a short kingdom would come (Rev. 17:10-11) and then the antichrist and the second coming would happen (sounds like a good title for a book). That would put the Second Coming not too long after the fall of Rome (which is of course absurd).

Game, set, match

Duncan

[Chuck]

Nice find regarding the "70 Questions". My recollection is that this came from Matthew Hocker and is in portable form here on my website.

[Nate]

Man I've gotta listen to Preston's debate! Maybe I'll pick up some good ideas for talking with my fellow disp folks at our church :)

Along with what Duncan suggested (which I think is a most excellent suggestion), I believe that the "toughest" thing for a disp to truly reconcile relates to the relationship between Israel and the church. Eschatology can be debated and much ground can be made there in understanding issues in dispensational interpretation, but I believe that to really get to the heart of the matter one challenging dispensationalism must challenge their "sine qua non" - especially the first part dealing with Israel and the church.

Ryrie in his book "Basis of the Premillenial Faith" (which I read once and want to purchase) says: "If the Church does not have a new covenant then she is fulfilling Israel's promises, for it has been shown that the Old Testament teaches that the new covenant is for Israel alone. If the Church is fulfilling Israel's promises as contained in the new covenant or anywhere in Scripture, then premillennialism is weakened."

The book further goes into great lengths to patch together what might be possibilities for how the Church is fulfilling the NC. Clearly the NT writers apply the NC to the church through passages such as Hebrews 8, so the dispensational presumption FORCES them to create alteratives such as there being two new covenants, or one NC and two applications, or even the spiritual/Church fulfillment now (partial) and total fulfillment later with Israel's restoration.

I'm sure we all agree that those alternatives are forced upon the Scriptures. I've even talked with other disp folks who gawked at the notion that those were really options that were taught, little though did they know that their disp teachers are forced to maintain those views, if a clear distinction between Israel at the Church must be maintained. We, of course, know that Scripture teaches no such distinction.

Here's my stab at a question...

If the church is not fulfilling any of Israel's promises, then how does Paul tell the Corinthians this, which contains direct reference to Leviticus 26:12, Ezekiel 37:27 and Isaiah 52:11 not to mention all of the many other "I will be their God and they will be my people" passages throughout the OT?

2 Corinthians 6:16-17:
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

[Duncan]

The new covenant is future, gee so what new covenant are we part of?

Rev. 12:1-12 shows Satan being cast out at the ascension of Jesus (the male Child) john 12:31-32 confirms that this casting out happened at the cross. Why do dispys say this casting out has not happened yet and that Satan is still in heaven accusing us before the Father? That sounds like heresy on their part.

Duncan

[plymouthrock!]

I remember this article from another site. Wasn't sure if anyone here was familiar with it. I gave them to my brother (an aspiring Dispy pastor) and he was truly without answer.

70 Questions Dispensationalists Cannot Honestly Answer

1)Why was Daniel told to seal the words of his prophecy for the time of the end (Daniel 12:4,9), but John was told to NOT seal his prophecy, because the time was at hand (Revelation 22:10)?

2)If Revelation was not to be sealed, but Daniel was to be sealed because it was for many days (Daniel 10:14), then many days are only 500 years, and if that is true, how can "at hand" be for 2000 years?

3)Is the new heaven and earth before (2nd Peter 3) or after (Revelation 21) the 1000 years?

4)Why is there no noticeable difference between the "rapture" texts and the "2nd coming" texts?

5)How can Jesus' kingdom be physical when Jesus rejected a physical kingdom in John 6:15 and Pilate did not believe he was going to establish a physical kingdom which would overthrow Rome (Luke 23:14)?

6)Why did Jesus go back to heaven after his resurrection, if he really wanted to establish an earthly kingdom?

7)Why didn't Jesus stay on earth if he wanted to establish an earthly kingdom?

8)How can Jesus' kingdom be set up in earthly Jerusalem, when Jesus himself said the hour was coming when worshipping God would NOT be in Jerusalem (John 4:21)?

9)Why would Jesus' kingdom be set up in earthly Jerusalem, knowing Jesus condemned their city several places (Matthew 22-24)?

10)Why would Jesus' kingdom be set up in earthly Jerusalem, even though Paul said earthly Jerusalem was bondage and the old covenant (Galatians 4:24-25)?

11)How can Jesus' kingdom have not yet come, when John the baptist, Jesus Christ and the apostles all declared the "kingdom of God is at hand" (Matthew 3:2, 4:17, 10:7)?

12)How can Jesus' kingdom be seen by everyone when Jesus himself said it comes NOT with observation (Luke 17:20)?

13)How can Jesus' kingdom be seen by everyone when Paul said it is NOT meat and drink, but righteousness, joy, and peace in the Holy Spirit (Romans 14:17)?

14)How can Jesus' kingdom be worldly/earthly, when Jesus himself said "My kingdom is not of this world" in John 18:36?

15)How can the "millennial" kingdom of God be of the jews when Jesus himself said he took the kingdom away from them and gave it to the gentiles who produce the fruits (Matthew 21:43)?

16)If Jesus took the kingdom from the jews and gave it to the gentiles, why is there no scripture to show another transfer back to the jews?

17)If God was going to go back to the jews/national Israel 2000 years after their judgment, why does Deuteronomy 28 vividly describe the events of 70 AD with accurate precision and proof that God once and for all DESTROYED national Israel forever because they rejected his ordinances and commandments?

18)Why is there not a shred of proof that modern jews are descendants of Abraham or the tribes of Israel?

19)Why is there much more evidence that modern jews are people descended from the gentile kingdom of Khazaria, who simply practice judaism?

20)If there is a 2000+ year gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel, why doesn't Daniel, or any other scripture mention it?

21)Wouldn't that mean that according to Deuteronomy 18, if there was a gap between the 69th and 70th week, that Daniel's prophecy did NOT come to pass as he said and therefore he was a false prophet?

22)If there is a 2000+ year gap between the 4th kingdom and the made up "5th kingdom" in Daniel 2 and 7, why doesn't Daniel or any other scripture mention it?

23)How can there be a 2000+ year gap between the 4th and "5th" kingdom, but all the previous kingdoms were consecutive with no gaps?

24)If the 70th week is still in the future, why did Jesus say "the time is fulfilled" in Mark 1:15?

25)If the 70th week is still in the future, why were there jews in expectation of the Messiah - Luke 3:15?

26)If the 70th week is still in the future, why did Jesus tell Peter to forgive his brother 70 times 7 in Matthew 18:22?

27)If the 70th week is still in the future, why does Daniel say Messiah would come after 69 weeks (483 years) and the prophecy began when the decree to rebuild Jerusalem was given in 456 BC? Wouldn't that mean the 69th week ended in 27 AD and the 70th week began in 27 AD, when Jesus was 30 years old and was baptized?

28)If the 70th week is still in the future, why does scripture say Jesus confirmed the covenant in Galatians 3:17 which quotes Daniel 9:27?

29)If the 70th week is still in the future, why did Jesus' crucifixion, which was 3.5 years after his baptism (midst of the week), cause the sacrifices and oblations to fail/cease (Hebrews 7:27, 9:26)?

30)If the 70th week is still in the future, why exactly 3.5 years after Jesus' crucifixion (midst of the week), did the gospel go to the gentiles (Acts 13:46)?

31)If the 70th week is still in the future, why does the New Testament say that all the events of Daniel 9:24 were fulfilled when Jesus Christ came?

32)If Jesus is going to rapture the church out of the world, why does Jesus pray for the exact opposite thing to happen (that the church would NOT be taken out of the world) in John 17:15,20?

33)If God is going to give the "land" to the jews in the future millennium, how can he possibly keep that promise, when it is also taught He will burn up the entire earth at the 2nd coming? Wouldn't that mean it wasn't the land He promised them?

34)If there is no physical death in the new heaven and earth, why does Isaiah 65:20 say the child will die at 100?

35)If the teaching that 1 day = 1000 years and 1000 years = 1 day to the Lord (2nd Peter 3:8) is literal or a primer of prophetic truth, and you decide to put it wherever you want in scripture, does that mean that the 1000 years in Revelation 20 is a single 24 hour day? Does that mean the church of Smyrna would have tribulation for 10,000 years (Revelation 2:10)?

36)If time means nothing to God, why does God constantly use time restricted statements such as shortly, at hand, near, quickly, end of all things, last times, last hour, last days, last day, this generation, etc?

37)If time means nothing to God, why does God consider 70 years a long time (Jeremiah 29:10,28)?

38)If time means nothing to God, why would He give Daniel a 70 week prophecy (Daniel 9:24)?

39)If time means nothing to God, why did God create a 7 day week (Genesis 1-2)?

40)If time means nothing to God, why would He command the Israelites to keep appointed feast days which they knew by the month they were in (Leviticus 23:34)?

41)If time will end after the new heaven and new earth, why does the tree of life produce fruit every month (Revelation 22:2)?

42)If the great tribulation (Daniel 12:1, Matthew 24:21) is GLOBAL, why did Jesus only tell those living in Judea to flee to the mountains (Matthew 24:16) and why did Daniel only refer to it occurring to those who were the “children of thy people”?

43)If Jesus' purpose for coming in the flesh was to destroy the devil (Hebrews 2:14, 1st John 3:8), and Paul said Satan would be crushed under the Romans' feet shortly in the 1st century (Romans 16:20), how can Satan still be here? Did Jesus forget to destroy Satan and decide to let Satan linger 2000 years longer?

44)If the 2nd coming of Jesus is Jesus coming in a physical, fleshly body, why does Paul say we would see Christ after the flesh no more (2nd Cor. 5:16)?

45)If the 2nd coming of Jesus would be the world seeing him coming in a physical body, why does Jesus say "In a little while and the world will see me no more" in John 14:19?

46)Why did the high priest accuse Jesus of blasphemy for saying he would come in the clouds sitting on the right hand of power (Matthew 26:64-65)?

47)If Jesus has not returned, then why do people say Christians go to heaven and the wicked go to hell? Wouldn't that mean that salvation, redemption and judgment has already come to the world? If that is so, then doesn't scripture prove Jesus has returned?

48)If most bible prophecy has not been fulfilled or is being fulfilled today, why doesn't ANY New Testament scripture say its fulfillment would be 2000 years later, but rather speak about it in a 1st century context?

49)If the book of Revelation is for us today in the year 2005, does that mean it was NOT to the 7 churches in Asia, which Revelation says it was written to? Does this mean John was writing to figments of his imagination? Why would John write to those 7 churches if it had nothing to do with them?

50)If "at hand" in scripture doesn't really mean anything, why would Jesus warn his disciples to not go after false Christs who say "the time is at hand" (Luke 21:8)? How could they tell when the time would be at hand versus when it was not at hand if at hand means 2000 years or longer?

51)If "delay" means nothing in scripture, why does Jesus say the evil servant says the lord delays his coming (Matthew 24:48)?

52)How could Jesus possibly accuse someone of being an evil servant, if delay doesn't mean anything?

53)Plus, how could his 12 disciples know who was false, if delay isn't in "human time"?

54)Why does Hebrews 10:37 say that "For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not delay"?

55)Why does Paul say that nobody has immortality until the 2nd coming of Christ and therefore cannot go to heaven until the 2nd coming? (1st Timothy 6:14-16)?

56)If Elijah the prophet has not yet come, why did Jesus say emphatically in 2 plain scriptures (Matthew 11:7-15, 17:10-13) that John the baptist was "Elijah who was to come"?

57)If Elijah the prophet has not yet come, does that mean Jesus isn’t the Messiah?

58)If Elijah the prophet didn’t come, even though Jesus said he did come, does that mean Jesus lied or mislead his own disciples?

59)If antichrist is a single person who is a world leader in the end of time, why doesn't a single scripture speak about it?

60)If there is a 7 year tribulation in the future, why doesn't scripture speak about it?

61)If the beast can be mortally wounded and be raised from the dead by Satan (Revelation 13:3), wouldn't that mean Satan can do something ONLY God can do (John 6:39-40)?

62)If the 144,000 from Revelation 7 and 14 are still yet in the future, jewish virgins, why do John, Paul and James speak about them as already in existence?

63)If the 144,000 from Revelation 7 and 14 are still yet in the future, why are they described as FIRSTFRUITS? Wouldn't that show they are the FIRST and not the last Christians?

64)If the last days are today in 2005, why did Peter and Paul both say the last days were in their lifetime?

65)If the end of the world (age) is still in the future, why does Hebrews 9:26 declare the end of the world (age) was present day in the 1st century?

66)If the age we are living in will end in the future, then why does Ephesians 3:21 say the Christian age has no end?

67)If the bible is to be read 100% literally, why are terms like at hand, quickly, shortly, etc and the original audience (Romans, Corinthians, etc) not read literally?

68)If the marriage supper of the lamb is after the rapture, why does scripture say it happens after Mystery Babylon is destroyed (Revelation 19)?

69)Wouldn't that mean the rapture happens after Mystery Babylon's destruction, thus meaning it is "post-trib"?

69.5)If the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) is the fleshly nation of Israel becoming a nation again, what about the same parable in Luke 21:29-30 which says "behold the fig trees and all the trees"?

71)Wouldn't that mean that Israel (the fig tree) becomes a nation again and ALL the other nations (all the trees) become nations again? Did that even happen in 1948?

72)If a person believes that Christians are the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16), and NOT fleshly jews (Matthew 3:9, John 8:44), why do dispensationalists call those who believe it "anti-semitic"?

73)What do you call a person who begs you to send money to get as many jews to the land of Israel (Wings of Eagles), but they do so with the belief that 2/3 of those jews will be slaughtered in a future tribulation (Zechariah 13:7-9)? Wouldn't you call them pre-meditated murderers?. Wouldn't that be more "anti-semitic" than calling the church Israel?

74)If there is going to be a rebuilt jewish temple in the future, why does scripture say God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands anymore (Acts 7:48, 17:24)?

75)If there is going to be a rebuilt jewish temple in the future, why did God destroy the 2nd temple in 70 AD?

76)If there is going to be a rebuilt jewish temple in the future, why are they trying to build it on the old Roman fortress of Antonia (the wailing wall)?

77)If heaven and earth have not passed away yet, does that mean not one jot or tittle has passed from the law and Jesus did not fulfill the law yet (Matthew 5:17-18)?

78)If we are in the new covenant, which scripture says is forever, why would God go back to a temple system of the old covenant which Paul called bondage (Galatians 4)?

79)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why does John give time statements throughout the book pointing to imminent events which fit the description of Jerusalem's destruction from Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 17/21?

80)If Revelation would occur thousands of years after it was written, why does John say the 6th king is the one who "is"?

81)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why was he told to measure the temple, if the temple was already destroyed?

82)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why was John told how long the Gentiles would tread down the city (Revelation 11) which Jesus referred to in Luke 21:24 which were the events from 66-70 AD?

83)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why is there nothing mentioned about the destruction of Jerusalem?

84)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, how could there be other apostles alive (Revelation 2:2), when all the apostles except John were dead before 70 AD?

85)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, how could there be jews persecuting Christians (Revelation 2:9,3:9) which would have been impossible after the destruction of Jerusalem?

86)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why were there 2 different numbers used to calculate the same beast in Revelation 13:18 (616 and 666) which pointed to Nero Caesar?

87)What purpose would it serve for John to tell the first readers of his prophecy to "calculate" the number of the name of the beast if he was not to be born until 2000 years later?

88)If God has 2 different plans for jews and gentiles, why does Paul say there isn't any more distinction (Romans 10:12, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11)? Why did Jesus break the wall of partition (Ephesians 2:14) if there is going to be a partition in a future millennium?

89)If there were no signs for the rapture, why did Paul say there were (1st Thessalonians 4:15-5:9, 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-12)?

90)If the rapture is in Matthew 24, where is the 2nd coming?

91)If Jesus said nobody knows the day or hour of his coming, does that mean people can't know when he comes?

92)Why would Paul compare His coming to being like a pregnant woman (1st Thessalonians 5:3)?

93)Does a pregnant woman know the "day or hour" of giving birth?

94)Does she understand it would happen within 9 months?

95)If that is true, then does that mean they could know his coming would happen within a certain period of time such as "this generation" (Matthew 24:34)?

96)If Jesus cannot come until the gospel is preached to every single person in the world, will he ever come, since the world's population doubles every 18 years and those who haven't heard the gospel yet are more people than the entire world during the time of Jesus?

97)What about women who are pregnant today and in the future, does that mean that as long as there are pregnant women every day, that the gospel cannot be "preached" to every single person?

98)Would that mean that Jesus could never come back?

99)If the great commission (Mark 16:15) is not yet fulfilled, why did Paul say it was fulfilled in Romans 1:8, 10:18, 16:26, Colossians 1:5-6, 23?

100)If the new Jerusalem is a physical location, how was it possible that the Hebrews in the 1st century were already there (Hebrews 12:22) if it had not come down yet?

102)If the mark of the beast is a microchip or physical tattoo, does that mean the seal of God is also a microchip or a tattoo?

103)How can the zionist movement to restore Israel be fulfillment of Israel being gathered, when scripture says they cannot be gathered except in a state of repentance (Jeremiah 50:4-5)?

104)Was the zionist movement in 1948 in a state of repentance?

105)If Revelation was written after 70 AD, why is there no evidence to prove it?

106)Why are there some who claim Israel did not get all their land yet?

107)Why does scripture record they got all the "land promises" to Abraham (Genesis 15:18 and 22:17) which were fulfilled, because God kept his promises? - (Joshua 11:23; 21:23-25, 1 Kings 4:20-21, Nehemiah 9:7-8, and Psalm 105:42-44)

108)If the promises to Israel are forever and unconditional, why does God say it is conditional in Deuteronomy 28?

109)If the man of sin (2nd Thessalonians 2:3) is still in the future, why did Paul say the man of sin was alive in the 1st century (the mystery of iniquity doth already work)?

110)If dispensationalism has been of the "historic" Christian faith, why was it unheard of prior to the 1830's?

111)If Jesus was going to physically come in the clouds as he left, why did the angel tell them he would come in a like manner (not the exact same way) (Acts 1:11)?

112)If the angel told the men of Galillee that they would see Jesus come in a like manner (Acts 1:11), then does that mean he came while the "men of Galillee" were still alive in the 1st century?

113)If John told the 7 churches in Asia that "behold he cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him, also those who pierced him" in Rev 1:7, does that mean those who killed Jesus would be alive when Jesus returned?

114)If God was going to go back to animal sacrifices for sin in a future millennium, does that mean Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21)?

115)If "this generation" in every scripture meant the people Jesus was speaking to and about, then how can "this generation" in Matthew 24:34 be talking about people thousands of years later?

116)If prophetic language is LITERAL, does that mean Mount Sinai melted at the presence of the Lord, since the hills melt at the presence of the Lord (Nahum 1:5)?

117)If there is no more sun in the new heaven and earth, does that mean the Lord's name does not endure forever (Psalms 72:17)?

118)If there is no more moon in the new heaven and earth, why does Isaiah 66:23 say all flesh would worship God from one new moon to another?

119)If prophetic language is LITERAL, why did none of the cosmic events described in Isaiah 13 literally happen when it was fulfilled according to Daniel 5?

120)If the "whole world" in scripture means "every single person on the globe", did Paul say that people from North and South America, Antartica, Asia, Africa spoke about the faith of the 1st century Romans (Roman 1:8)?

121)If "caught up" in 1st Thessalonians 4:17 means Jesus will physically take the church out of the planet earth, did Paul's vision in 2nd Corinthians 12 have him physically flying off planet earth when it says he was "caught up"?

122)If the resurrection is on the last day (John 11:24), but the Christian age has no last day (Ephesians 3:21), then when is the resurrection?

123)If the resurrection is still in the future, why did Jesus say in John 5:25, "the hour is coming and NOW IS, when the dead shall hear the voice of the son of God and they that hear shall live"?

124)If the resurrection is still in the future, why did Daniel say it would be fulfilled when the power of the holy people was completely shattered, which could only be Jerusalem's destruction in 70 AD?

125)If death is physical, why does Paul say death is of sin and the law in 1st Corinthians 15:56?

126)If death is physical, why does Jesus say those who live and believe in him will never die?

127)If death is not physical, then how can the resurrection which redeems us from death be physical?

128)If the resurrection was about physically dead bodies coming out of physical graves, why did Jesus and Paul say the resurrection was about identifying who the people of God were (Luke 20:36, Romans 8:13-25, 2nd Timothy 2:19)?

129)If John was told to "come up hither" in Revelation 4:1, did he physically leave the planet?

130)If not, why do people use that Revelation 4:1 to "prove" a rapture?

131)Why do people say the church is not mentioned after Revelation 4:1, when Revelation 22:16 says it was written to the churches?

132)If there is no sin in the new heaven and earth, how can there still be sinners in it (Isaiah 65:20)?

133)If those who are "taken" in the rapture according to Matthew 24:40-41 are the righteous, why does the bible say the WICKED were taken in Matthew 24:39?

134)Why should we read the "thousand years" in Revelation 20 as literal, knowing that the number thousand has significant meaning as to completion, perfection, etc (Deut 7:9, 1st Chr 16:15, Psalms 50:10, 105:8)?

135)If God was going to go back to physical Jews in the future, why doesn’t the new testament speak about it?

136)If the bible is to be read 100% literally, why do dispensationalists say the 7 churches in Asia (Revelation 1-3) are “church ages” and not “literal” churches?

137)If there are 7 church “ages” in Revelation 1-3, why doesn’t scripture speak about it?

138)If “shortly” means “2000 years or longer”, does that mean it was going to take Timothy 2000 years to be sent to us by Paul (Philippians 2:19)?

139)If Daniel was told to seal up his words for the time of the end (Daniel 12:4,9), and Jesus quoted (unsealed) Daniel 12:1-8, wouldn’t that mean the time of the end was in the 1st century?

140)If the world is really getting worse and worse and the end is in the next few years, why do dispensationalists get married? Wouldn’t that mean they really do NOT believe the end is near, because Paul said the time was short and those who had wives will be as though they had none (1st Cor. 7:29)?

141)If the world is really getting worse and worse and the end is in the next few years, why do dispensationalists have children? Wouldn’t that mean they really do NOT believe the end is near, because Jesus said woe to them with child and who give suck in those days (Matthew 24:19)? Wouldn’t it be very cruel of them to bring a child into a world they honestly believe is getting “worse and worse”?

142)If Jesus’ 2nd coming is as a thief, how can he come loudly, visibly that the world can see him coming? Wouldn’t a thief come quietly where nobody knew he came except the people he warned prior to his coming?

143)If Jesus’ 2nd coming is as a thief, wouldn’t that mean that nobody knew he came, since nobody knows when a clever thief has come in the night?

144)If nobody knew Jesus’ came, except his followers (John 14:22-23), wouldn’t it be very possible that the world didn’t know he came at all?

145)If Paul said wolves would enter into the church, teaching perverse things and raising up disciples after themselves (Acts 20:28-31), isn’t it possible that they taught a false eschatology, which is why a majority of the “creeds” afterward missed the 2nd coming?

146)If the jews in the 1st century missed the first coming of Jesus because of their ignorance of the scriptures (Mark 12:24), isn’t it entirely possible that Christians living in the 21st century have missed the 2nd coming of Jesus for the same reason?

147) Why would the gates of New Jerusalem be left open if everything outside this city is destroyed (Revelation.21:25)? If everyone outside these gates were burned up, and there is nobody left alive outside these gates, why are there people still entering through the gates into the city after the New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven (Revelation 21:24)?

148)If the resurrection is physical, why did Jesus say those who are resurrected are like the angels of heaven? Aren’t the angels of heaven “ministering spirits” - Hebrews 1:14?

149)Why do dispensationalists say we are 1)on earth….2)when we die, we go to heaven….3)at the rapture, we come back to earth….4)at the rapture we go back to heaven….5)at the 2nd coming we come back to earth 7 years later to be there for 1000 years….6)after the thousand years, we go to a new heaven and earth?

150)If the world is going to end, why does the bible say it will NEVER end? (Genesis 8:21-22, Psalms 78:69, 89:36-37, 93:1, 96:10, 104:5, 119:90, 148:4-6, Isaiah 45:17, Eccl. 1:4, Ephesians 3:21)

151)If the great commission is still not fulfilled, why does Paul the apostle plainly say it was (Romans 1:8, 10:18, 16:26, Colossians 1:5-6, 23)?

152)If "like manner" is exactly how Jesus would return as he left in Acts 1:11, does that mean Jesus left while all the tribes of the earth (land) were wailing (Zech. 12:10, Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7)?

153)If "like manner" is exactly how Jesus would return as he left in Acts 1:11, does that means Jesus left riding a white horse (Revelation 19:11)?

154)If "like manner" is exactly how Jesus would return as he left in Acts 1:11, does that mean Jesus left judging every man according to his works (Matthew 16:27, Revelation 22:12)?

155)If "like manner" is exactly how Jesus would return as he left in Acts 1:11, does that mean Jesus left and raised the dead in Christ (1st Thess. 4:16-17)?

156)If "like manner" is exactly how Jesus would return as he left in Acts 1:11, does that mean Jesus left with a sword coming out of his mouth (Revelation 19:15)?

157)If the end of the age is still in the future, why in Matthew 13:39, 24:3 does it say it was in the future, but only 30 years later, in Hebrews 9:26, the end of the age was present day? How can people justify the end of the age stretching beyond its 30 year fulfillment?


70)If Christ was actually in His eternal physical resurrection body, will we be raised with the same physical body and likeness as Christ was raised with (1 John 3:2)?

a) Was He physical? Will we have that same physical body?
b) Was he any age? What age? Will we be the same age as Christ?
c) Will we too have scars that we had previously? Christ did.
d) Will we all be raised male? Christ was.
e) What about babies? Will they be raised as babies? Or will all people suddenly be raised at the prime age of 30 like Christ?

You may say "Why did you put the 70th question after the 157th question?" I'm only using the same fallacy of logic dispensationalists use when applying the 70 weeks of Daniel."

[Chuck]

Ted, I think we are called to "get in the way" even though at times it’s quite frustrating. For those unwilling to study there are really no easy answers. A friend of mine (who is quite intelligent) continues to insist that Scripture is so simple even a child should be able to understand it. We’ve found that even the most basic texts like John 3:16 are grossly misunderstood. With that kind of simplistic mentality ignoring directives like Heb 5:12 and an insistence on the literal except when it's inconvenient, there's nothing to work with. I agree with you as far as the convincing goes. God is the revealer of truth. We are merely conduits and sometimes not very successful ones at that. However, I think we are called to be part of the process. Just think how hard it was for the first century believers as they confronted the mother religion. Convincing them that in this New Covenant, they were preaching nothing but the law and the prophets, was a monumental task

Dispy's (and that's a rather broad term because I truly think there are so many hybrids that you really can't assume anything particular to a single person) can make Daniel 12 future to them all they want but if they are intellectually honest (which may be a stretch in some cases) they will have to admit that at the "time of the end", when there "shall be a time of trouble such as never has been since there was a nation till that time", there is to be a concurrent resurrection and the shattering of the power of the Holy people. God makes it clear to Daniel that this is well into his future by the directive to "seal up the book". However, Jesus pins down this time referent of the tribulation (in the Olivet) to "this generation". Of course they will attempt some death-defying mental high wire acts of subterfuge but if you hold their feet to the fire there is no wiggle room. I'm sure you know the whole drill with "genea" vs. "genos". They're perfectly willing to change the definition of this word but at that point they must change the meaning of all prior uses as well. Matthew 23: 34-36 coupled with Galatians 4:21-31 are particularly destructive to their paradigm. Read Brian Godawa’s (partial prêt) The Promise to Abraham. It’s the best I’ve read on the subject regarding the Israel of God.

The bottom line to me is this. If they continue to play games with the text and are fast and loose with "audience relevance" then only time and prayer are left. Dispensationalism has already been defeated, but most of the guys on the street don't know it yet. It's similar to many of the arguments that are put forth by the uninformed lay evolutionists. They've yet to learn that their arguments have already been agreed to have been falsified by those that they think they are following.

I just continue to beat home the "time statements". They will eventually wear the literalist down. I truly think getting across the whole concept of "audience relevance" is the key. Every chance I get I attempt to bring that to light. Most folks who read the Word, totally trivialize the lives of the direct recipients as though it's fair game for them to be lied to as long as it produces generational expectancy. It's okay to tell them to have endurance "for in a very little while the coming one will come and will not tarry". It's okay to exhort them toward patience "for the coming of the Lord is at hand...the judge is standing at the door". It's okay to tell them that it's the last hour when in fact it was not even the last millennium. It's okay for Jesus to so drastically mislead His followers with His continued "this generation" proclamations. It's okay for Peter to tell them that "the end of all things is near" when it wasn't near at all. Or for Paul to warn them that "the time is short...the form of this world is passing away", if the time was really not short. If this was truly code language only properly understood by those that would come thousands of years later, who told the hurting persecutors Christ followers that God was really not going to avenge them as promised per 2Thes 1:5-10?

Ted, if the weight of the time statements don't buckle the knees of the seeker then they aren't seeking anything but proof of their own paradigm. I don't assail them for that. I've at times been guilty of the same. Once they realize that what they are taking literally (apocalyptic language) should be figurative and what they are taking figuratively (time) should be taken literally, all kinds of lights begin to come on. I think that the arguments should be as simple as possible and staying on the time themes is what I have found most successful. Once this begins to shake their paradigm (as it did mine) then subjects concerning a dichotomy of people's of God and the Covenants begin to make more sense.

I have no idea if this has been a help. For all I know you have a better working knowledge of this stuff than I do. I've embedded a few links to pages on my website and have accumulated hundreds of articles that deal with just about everything I've ever run up against. End Times & Audio pages. I don't cherish the traffic since I put this together for my friends but for folks here I consider my friends.

Blessings,
Chuck

[Ted]

I have listened to that debate. I guess I am being lazy. I was hoping that many on this site have already encountered several ironclad positions against specific dispensational positions without any wiggle room. To their mind Daniel 9 already contains a gap. To explain this away a lot of understanding is required. Daniel 12 is still future to them. So also is the covenant of Jeremiah 31. I have one question composed and it goes like this. "If Joel's prophecy (2:28-31) refers to Israel (since dispys do not believe the church is mentioned in the OT) then why do they apply Peter's quote of his prophecy (Acts 2:16-20) to the last days of the church? They can't have it referring to both the church (NT) and Israel (OT)." This is the kind of stuff I was hoping for. I guess it doesn't really matter if any questions are found, it has all been divinely ordained by God and my piddly efforts are not going to effect any change with God... I sometimes wonder why I bother at all. Perhaps it is better to do nothing and not get in the way.

[Michael Bennett]

Larry - I got a chuckle - that was classic - hope your knee gets better =)