CHURCH NAME ???

[Prabhu Das]

Please share your understanding with the name of the Church.

Basically I'm from Church of Christ. Recently I came to know about a Preterist C of C who has changed their name. I don't know what made them to change their mind on once strong held belief. In the past they might have believed that Jesus founded only one church, which the current divisions between Christians are not God’s will. This desire is based on a belief that Christ established only one church, and that the use of denominational names serves to foster division among Christians.

But now...once desire to use a scriptural or Biblical name to identify the church (using a name that is found in the New Testament) became stumbling block??? How this can be? The Lord’s people were to bear Christ’s name or not? Has the Preterism radically changed their understanding with the scriptures??

IS THE NAME OF THE CHURCH ANY IMPORTANT?

I hope you got my Q. Please share some insightful thoughts. This Question is very important for me. Thanks!!

[Larry Siegle]

One comment that should be mentioned in connection with I Cor. 1:10ff is that the apostle Paul was not dealing with "denominations" nor did he even have that in mind when he wrote. He was dealing with controversies that had occurred within the confines of "one" congregation--who were divided among themselves in that setting. Congregational unity was the issue that Paul had in mind, the divisions that had occurred because of Jews and Gentiles inability to be united in the "one faith"--WITHIN the one congregation (which, although divided was still referred to as "THE CHURCH OF GOD, at Corinth" despite their theological and practical differences of opinion. Division did not affect their IDENTITY as the people of God, although the the spread of the gospel was being affected by the problems that existed.

The core issues of "salvation by faith" were not the substance of their divisions. We assume more of the text than is actually there when we attempt to transport the context into the 21st century and apply to denominationalism. There are many doctrinal positions that remain open for discussion among those who would agree with the basis elements that define one as a Christian. Many of the practices in the Restoration Movement evolved into "tradition" in the same vein that many practices are "tradition" in other religious groups. Creeds, written or otherwise, often define how we approach certain concepts and ideas, and ultimately lead to various conclusions based upon where we start and the process used to arrive at our conclusions.

Preterism has transcended all denominational boundaries, which is a sign that it is a core element of Truth, in the sense that it does not "BELONG" to one group over another. It is not a "Restorationist" or "Reformed" position. It is not a "Baptist" or a "Methodist" position. It is a bunch of just, plain Christians who have opened the pages of the Word of God and have decided to ignore all of the conflicting voices all around us, and allow Jesus and the apostles once again to speak to us...

[Michael Day]

My understanding of the Bible, and I am open to correction, is that the church was called the church in Ephesus, or the church in Laodicea, etc...It was one body of believers within one city.

[Prabhu Das]

Thanks Br. Victor. Could you please comment to my above post?

[Victor Richardson]

Names Applied to the Church in Holy Scripture: (re-posted with additional names, probably still incomplete)

The first English translations used “assembly” for the Greek word “ekklesia”. King James insisted that “ekklesia” be translated “church” in the Authorized Version of 1611 because the Crown had authority over buildings but not over assemblies!

G1577 - ἐκκλησία - ekklēsia
Thayer Definition:
1) a gathering of citizens called out from their homes into some public place, an assembly
1a) an assembly of the people convened at the public place of the council for the purpose of deliberating
1b) the assembly of the Israelites
1c) any gathering or throng of men assembled by chance, tumultuously
1d) in a Christian sense
1d1) an assembly of Christians gathered for worship in a religious meeting
1d2) a company of Christian, or of those who, hoping for eternal salvation through Jesus Christ, observe their own religious rites, hold their own religious meetings, and manage their own affairs, according to regulations prescribed for the body for order’s sake
1d3) those who anywhere, in a city, village, constitute such a company and are united into one body
1d4) the whole body of Christians scattered throughout the earth
1d5) the assembly of faithful Christians already dead and received into heaven

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
(Acts 7:38 KJV)

and out of all my sons--for many sons hath Jehovah given to me--He also fixeth on Solomon my son, to sit on the throne of the kingdom of Jehovah over Israel,
(1 Chronicles 28:5 YLT)

And Samuel saith unto him, `Jehovah hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee to-day, and given it to thy neighbour who is better than thou;
(1 Samuel 15:28 YLT)

and ye--ye are to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation: these are the words which thou dost speak unto the sons of Israel.'
(Exodus 19:6 YLT)

And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.
(Isaiah 62:12 KJV)

The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways. And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
(Deuteronomy 28:9-10 KJV)

Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
(Psalms 101:6 KJV)

And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
(Isaiah 1:26 KJV)

And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
(Exodus 12:6 KJV)

And thou shalt bring the Levites before the tabernacle of the congregation: and thou shalt gather the whole assembly of the children of Israel together:
(Numbers 8:9 KJV)

Sing praise to Jehovah, ye His saints, And give thanks at the remembrance of His holiness,
(Psalms 30:4 YLT)

Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
(Acts 9:13 KJV)

And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all quarters, he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.
(Acts 9:32 KJV)

Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:
(Philippians 1:1 KJV)

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
(1 Corinthians 1:9 KJV)

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
(Ephesians 1:1 KJV)

To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Colossians 1:2 KJV)

To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Romans 1:7 KJV)

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(1 Corinthians 14:33 KJV)

Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you.
(Romans 16:16 KJV)

All the saints salute you.
(2 Corinthians 13:13 KJV)

And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
(Acts 11:26 KJV)

And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
(Galatians 1:22 KJV)

For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
(1 Thessalonians 2:14 KJV)

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(1 John 3:1 KJV)

And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
(Acts 8:1 KJV)

Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
(Acts 13:1 KJV)

(8) Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
(Acts 20:28 KJV)

But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
(1 Corinthians 11:16 KJV)

Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
(1 Corinthians 1:2 KJV)

That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
(Ephesians 5:27 KJV)

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
(1 Timothy 3:15 KJV)

And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house:
(Philemon 1:2 KJV)

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
(Hebrews 12:23 KJV)

The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.
(1 Peter 5:13 KJV)

Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
(Revelation 2:1 KJV)

And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
(Revelation 2:8 KJV)

And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
(Revelation 2:12 KJV)

And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
(Revelation 2:18 KJV)

And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
(Revelation 3:1 KJV)

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
(Revelation 3:7 KJV)

And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
(Revelation 3:14 KJV)

I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
(Romans 16:1 KJV)

Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
(1 Corinthians 16:1 KJV)

The churches of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house.
(1 Corinthians 16:19 KJV)

Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
(2 Corinthians 8:1 KJV)

(CF: Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.)
(Acts 6:9 KJV)
(CF: And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.)
(Acts 14:1 KJV)

For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
(James 2:2 KJV)

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
(1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV)

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
(Romans 8:16-17 KJV)

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
(1 Corinthians 14:33 KJV)

And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.
(Romans 9:26 KJV)

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
(Galatians 4:28 KJV)

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
(Matthew 5:45 KJV)

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
(Luke 6:35 KJV)

And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
(Luke 16:8 KJV)

Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
(Ephesians 5:1 KJV)

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
(1 Thessalonians 5:5 KJV)

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
(2 Peter 2:2 KJV)

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
(2 Peter 2:21 KJV)

[Brock Hollett]

Good question Prabhu! Paul is pointing out that the body of Christ had divisions, and that these divisions were based largely on the rabbinic idea that Jesus rejected in the Gospels. This was the notion that which rabbi a person followed was of utmost importance, yet Jesus told us that he alone is our teacher par excellence. We are not more righteous because we follow a particular brand of theology, but we are righteous because Jesus is our Lord. This might be similar to Calvinists arguing that they are holy but that Arminians are not, or futurists saying that they are holy but preterists are not, etc. We should strive to have no divisions (doctrinal or otherwise) among us while recognizing that true believers who disagree on secondary doctrines (even important ones) are equally holy because we are united under one head, that is, Christ alone.

[Prabhu Das]

Please also explain these verses in it's said context and comment does this related to our discuss in any way. When St.Paul said, DIVISIONS what does it mean and what kind of a divisions they are? Not like as todays... Lutheran, Baptist etc.etc,? if the Church goes in a denomination way...as it is now....then is it possible to "be perfected in the same mind, and in the same judgment,"?


1 Corinthians 1:10-13 (Young's Literal Translation)

10And I call upon you, brethren, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that the same thing ye may all say, and there may not be divisions among you, and ye may be perfected in the same mind, and in the same judgment,

11for it was signified to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe, that contentions are among you;

12 and I say this, that each one of you saith, `I, indeed, am of Paul' -- `and I of Apollos,' -- `and I of Cephas,' -- `and I of Christ.'

13 Hath the Christ been divided? was Paul crucified for you? or to the name of Paul were ye baptized;

[Bob Minner]

Brother Victor, once again, I appreciate your research and thoroughness...

[Prabhu Das]

Thank you so much for all of your informative thoughts so far!

[Alan Bondar]

Parbhu,
This is a great question and worthy of some serious thought. Here are my thoughts on it:

In the first century, churches were known by the name of the city. There was the church in Rome, the church in Philippi, and so forth. They didn't think in terms of denominations. There were divisions, yes, but those divisions were not over calvinism and arminianism, or baptist versus presbyterian. The divisions they faced concerned the Law and Judaism. That division makes sense considering the transition from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

With that said, we have to remember that there were not five hundred thousand different churches in existence. The Scriptures are concerned with the churches in the Roman Empire. They didn't think in terms of church names. They didn't have time to be that creative. There was a church in Philippi, so Paul wrote to the church in Philippi. Here we come upon an important distinction. There were two different "denominations" so to speak (more like religions). There was the Church of Christ and there was Judaism. Which one would win out in the end? The Church of Christ.

There is only one Church of Christ. So I recognize the motivation behind the Churches of Christ attempting to create one ecumenical Church. The problem is that apart from preterism, this is impossible to accomplish because each denomination today has their own understanding on how the Scriptures directly apply to us in our time. So we have developed denominational names to help us distinguish these beliefs. In the end, there is only one Church of Christ, and quite frankly, I don't think the local church name makes any difference in this matter one way or the other. The church name does, however, help to distinguish between the different beliefs that exist in the Church of Christ.

The problem I have with the Churches of Christ is that it attempts to unite that which is already united. In a way, it does create another denomination even though it's not considered a denomination. In essence, it's the denomination that accepts a plethora of beliefs. Yet, there are certain beliefs that even the Churches of Christ requires. But who gets to determine what beliefs are required to be part of the Church of Christ?

You see, only the churches that God has placed in the Church of Christ are the ones in the Church of Christ. So who are we to be witch hunters trying to figure it out. Whether my church is called Messiah Reformed Church or The Church in Fort Myers makes no difference as to whether or not we're part of Christ's Church.

So ultimately, my answer to you question is no, the name of the church makes no difference. I say make it practically relevant.

[Bob Minner]

First of all, I believe that the statement that 'the Lord's people were to bear Christ's name' is partly based on a presupposition (in this case) from erroneous Church of Christ doctrine / belief. Yes, we as believers are to bear Christ's name (onoma - authority, which is the Holy Spirit in us), but to use a name to identify us is not exactly scriptural imho. Jesus said that 'you will know His disciples by their fruit and their love (agape - see 2 Jn 6) they have for one another - not by any particular moniker.

The Church of Christ get their idea that the 'church' must be called 'Church(es) of Christ' from a simple passage in Rom 16:16 Romans 16:16 (ASV) "Salute one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ salute you. " Yet this passage is not qualifying that ALL of the groups of believers were known by the term 'Church(es) of Christ', but rather that the ekklesia - the 'called out ones' of Christ salute those whom Paul was addressing. Paul is simply saying that the other believers / called out ones, are giving those believers in Rome due notice of their efforts.

Yet the C of C has twisted this into something it is not. I have also heard that some C of C go so far as to say that they are the only true biblical church, or the only correct name for the church - hogwash, I say. What was there before the denominational establishment of that C of C 'shingle'? As brother Burrell stated ( with all due respect) in his post above, he challenged kids to find Anglican, Baptist, etc., in scripture, basing his position he erroneous idea that the C of C was the only true name for the church in scripture. yet that idea, as I pointed out, was based in error. YES, the term churches of Christ is in scripture. But was Paul using it to affirm a correct title for a church? NO, that was Campbell many many centuries later. And further, I like brother Burrell's statement of a citizen of the kingdom. Amen!

Acts 11:26 says that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Yet that is a name given to the disciples by the secular folk it seems. There was no scriptural ordination for that term, yet we commonly use it, and it is correct. We may do the same with the Romans 16:16 passage, but our understanding must be that of the 'church' being a called-out group of the elect, in any given location, and not a building, denomination, etc.

Denomination comes from denomos, or to set one's self off from, or create a boarder. Men have always used names as ways to identify each other's similarities and differences. Pardon my bluntness, but it's like dogs sniffing each other's backsides when they meet. It's a way of identifying each other. And I would say that today we have way too much spiritual butt sniffing going on!

As brother JP stated, the common term used was simply the 'church' in the NT. And while I realize that in today's culture we feel the need to identify ourselves by some terminology (with the desire to be scripturally accurate), we need to understand that Baptist, Anglican, Pentecostal, and Church of Christ ( or any other denom) cannot be found in NT scripture as denominations. We simply see the called out ones looking to the great and fearful day of the Lord. So perhaps we are best served by simply saying that we are followers of the Lord Jesus Christ, and leave it at that. And perhaps when we are with the Lord in eternity, only then will we clearly be able to see the foolishness and wasted effort we expended on earth to qualify ourselves as this and that or such and such in His kingdom. As I always say, men build empires, Christ builds a kingdom. The name matters not. It is the authority (onoma) behind how we live our lives for other to see that is important. That is how they will know we belong to Him...