Do we hate PEACE?

[Chuck]

Shouldn't peace with God increase peace in the world? Where Christ is exalted, the peace of God surpasses all comprehension. Broken relationships are restored as mercy and grace are extended.

Is this all a pipe dream? Is peace among men possible or does the New Covenant strictly exist on a spiritual level?

Strife is everywhere. Muslims hate Jews. Christians hate Muslims. Hagee and his Christian Zionists collaborators constantly call us to nuke Iran, while Robertson condones assassinating world leaders. And our military is cheered as though it's a wing of the Church. As those S.M.A.R.T. bombs cascaded down upon the Iraqis in the early 90's, I remember my heart swelling with pride. Today I look back in utter horror now realizing that those men, women and children were made in the image of God. How could I be so callous?

I watch brother fight against brother over doctrinal nuances. I witness countless character assassinations in the name of this position or that...always justified by the attacker as believing he or she is solely tasked by God for the maintenance of doctrinal purity.

Something's amiss. Why do we revel in animosity and wallow in condescension? Aren't we supposed to be THE peacemakers?

PEACE is a rather scarce commodity. Why? Why have we set the bar to low? As I survey the landscape, I'm disgusted to be party to so much conflict. Aren't we living in the New Covenant where peace flows like living water? Consider these few passages as we let the Holy Spirit speak clearly.

Isaiah 9:6 (NASB) For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 52:7 (NASB) How lovely on the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who announces peace And brings good news of happiness, Who announces salvation, And says to Zion, "Your God reigns!"

Luke 2:14 (NASB) "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased."

Matthew 5:9 (NASB) "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Romans 5:1 (NASB) Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 14:17 (NASB) for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Isn't the peace from/with God supposed to flavor ALL of our earthly relationships? How can we effectively proclaim the Gospel of peace when so much brotherly angst is flowing through our community?

Today, a Facebook friend made the following astute comment: "We shouldn't be so quick to exalt Jews over Muslims. They still despise the Christ."

The lack of peace that we experience among one another is imported throughout the world. I believe there's a decided bigotry against Arabs within the larger body of Christ. Christian Zionism has influenced far more than are counted among their number. Arabs/Muslims are often perceived as THE enemy of God. As most of SGPers know and what the dispensationalists fail to recognize, is that in the New Covenant there is NO genetic predisposition. The dividing line is faith in Christ and Christ alone.

Galatians 3:26-29 (NASB) For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Colossians 3:11 (NASB) a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

1 Corinthians 12:13 (NASB) For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 1:24 (NASB) but to those who are the called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

What frustrates me is that Christian Zionists appear to ignore most of the Pauline Epistles as well as the majority of Jesus' parables. Who are THE true children of Abraham? Well before the Apostle Paul was fingered by the hand of God, John the Baptist railed against the religious elite telling them in no uncertain terms that God could raise up children of Abraham out of the rocks that peppered the countryside.

Matthew 3:9 (NASB) and do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham.

Romans 2:28-29a (NASB) For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly;

Romans 9:6-8 (NASB) But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham's descendants, but: "THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED."
8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Arabs, Israelis and people of all nationalities need Christ. Yet, once they love Christ will they not be cursed to live in the squalor of hatred propagated by the U.S. Church? I pray not but we MUST become the example.

I don't believe we will enjoy peace in the Middle East until we (Christians) begin to recognize two things: 1. That we are called to peace 2. That one's nationality has nothing to do with the equation. Preterists get the second but I'm not so certain that we grasp the first.

Let me highlight two movies I recently purchased that I believe are tantamount to creating the fertile soil necessary for peace in the Middle East. I highly recommend supporting both.

1. "With God On Our Side"..."With God On Our Side takes a look at the theology of Christian Zionism, which teaches that because the Jewsare God's chosen people, they have a divine right to the land of Israel. Aspects of this belief system lead some Christians in the West to give uncritical support to Israeli government policies, even those that privilege Jews at the expense of Palestinians, leading to great suffering among Muslim and Christian Palestinians alike and threatening Israel's security as a whole. This film demonstrates that there is a biblical alternative for Christians who want to love and support the people of Israel, a theology that doesn't favor one people group over another but instead promotes peace and reconciliation for both Jews and Palestinians." http://withgodonourside.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRNjpSiSB-0

2. "Little Town of Bethlehem" Little Town of Bethlehem, a documentary film, follows the story of three men of three different faiths and their lives in Israel and Palestine. The story explores each man’s choice of nonviolent action amidst a culture of overwhelming violence. http://littletownofbethlehem.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XB3WN5ZCCg

Christian Zionism & the Arab/Israeli Conflict

I believe peace with God is first and foremost. However, that should lead to the repairing of horizontal relationships. A significant portion of the Middle East problem is, in my view, fomented by a bigoted US foreign policy. And likewise a significant portion of the problems facing the church today is a bigoted doctrinal policy. I can hear the doctrinal zealots screaming as I type. Yes, we're all called to be faithful Bereans and to the best of our ability, with the aid of the Holy Spirit, we are to perpetuate the truth of God. But as our positions morph can't we extend the love of Christ to those who have not yet traveled our path?

Hopefully we as preterists will more effectively apply the doctrine of peace. If we truly understand what God has already so graciously accomplished, should we not be at the forefront of the peace movement?

Romans 12:17-21 (NASB) Never pay back evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all men. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. 20 "BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD." 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Titus 3:2 (NASB) to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB) Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Matthew 5:9 (NASB) "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

My hope is that we will become passionate about peace. First peace with God and then peace among men. Everywhere we go peace should follow us.

***P.S. Please support the movies listed above. These kinds of efforts must not go unrewarded by our treasure.

[Chuck]

Mayor of Bethlehem Slams Israeli Settlement Expansion

Mayor of Bethlehem on the Impact of the Israeli Occupation of Pales... from Stephen Sizer on Vimeo.

Stephen Sizer reports:

Tonight I had supper with Victor Batarseh, the Mayor of Bethlehem along with a few friends of Bethlehem Bible College. Victor is a gentle grandfather figure, a retired physician and active Christian. He also happens to be a US citizen, although the US Consulate General in Jerusalem refuses to meet with him. The British Consulate general is also unwilling to meet him. “They will meet with the Mayors of other Palestinian towns but not with the Christian Mayor of Bethlehem.” It is also almost impossible for him to leave Bethlehem without special permission from the Israeli authorities. I asked him why. He said “Because I am calling for justice for the Palestinians and peace with Israel and that is not the non-violent message Israel wants to hear from the Occupied Territories.”

He derided the idea that for the last ten months Israel has abided by a moratorium on Settlement expansion. “The settlement expansion has been continuing” he insisted. “The municipal boundary of Bethlehem used to encompass 35 square kilometers of territory. Now it is only six.” he insisted. The rest, mostly the agricultural land has been stolen by the 18 illegal Jewish settlements that now encircle Bethlehem.

He was elected Mayor of Bethlehem in 2005. On his election, he made this speech which, five years later, appears just as timely.

As the newly elected mayor of Bethlehem, I feel proud and privileged. Though it is little in size, it is one of the most famous cities on earth. Bethlehem is a name that lives in the hearts of millions of people. It signifies love, hope and peace for mankind.

It is true we do not have skyscrapers in Bethlehem, but we have the formidable Church of the Nativity, the place where it all started. We do not have natural resources, but we have the holy manger, the source of spiritual fulfillment and nourishment. We do not possess modern technology and satellites, but we have the star of the Nativity, the beacon that has embodied hope in the minds of all believers.

Our history is full of inspirational stories but also of bad times. The bad times under the recent Israeli aggression have led to enormous pain and suffering for Bethlehem and to unprecedented deterioration in its situation.

Throughout the past years, the Israeli settlements’ greedy campaign has cost us considerable loss of our land and resources. The continuous closure imposed on Bethlehem has crippled our freedom to move about, our trade and our labor force. What aggravated the matter, however, is the construction of the separation wall that is slicing the northern borders of Bethlehem, tearing apart many of our families and isolating our holy town from the outside world. We are living in the horror of this apartheid wall that has grabbed our land and seriously affected all aspects of our life, including our ability to access basic services and work, thus our ability to sustain ourselves. Actually, we live today in what is similar to a big prison.

Such a massive obstruction, a concrete wall nearly 40 feet high, is closing the main and historic entrance of the town of the Nativity and has decimated tourism, our major source of income. Except for the last three months when a few pilgrims and tourists were seen again at the Church of the Nativity, tourism in Bethlehem has reached a stage of total standstill over the last four consecutive years. Unemployment in town has therefore soared to 55 percent. With a bleeding heart, I regret to say that more than half of Bethlehemites live today under the poverty line, which encouraged a serious wave of emigration among them, in particular Christians, the custodians of the holy manger.

With lack of adequate support from our Palestinian National Authority, the municipality lives at present in a dire financial crisis. Last month we could not afford to pay the salaries of our employees. The situation portends further deterioration should no immediate support be received, including the risk of cutting off essential municipal services rendered to our people, which would make things even worse.

Ladies and gentlemen, I am not telling a story nor am I trying to be gloomy. I am only conveying the truth that Bethlehem lives today. At this difficult time, we turn toward the sons of Bethlehem, toward our friends and partners throughout the world, asking them to reach out with a helping hand. To them we say Bethlehem, the cradle of Christianity, needs you more than ever before.

For sure one day the wall around Bethlehem will fall. Examples in old and recent history confirm this fact. We will strive to bring that day closer. But until then, we can refuse to live in its shadow. Bethlehem deserves to be open because it stands for the values of openness, an open democracy built on the open hearts of its citizens. The rich and unique heritage of Bethlehem reminds the world that we all face a poorer future without the hope and promise of our little town.

Ladies and gentlemen, despite our suffering and the oppression we are afflicted with, we hold deep faith in peace. We believe peace is the only solution. Peace is a blessing from God we all need. However, peace should be based on justice, equality and respect of others’ rights if it is to prevail, and not on oppression, might and separation.

I should say the Israeli occupation of our land is the sole obstacle to peace and the major cause of instability in our region.

Being on the soil of the U.S.A., the biggest democracy on earth, I call upon the U.S. government, the main sponsor of the Middle East peace process, to do its utmost toward implementing the international legitimacy represented in the United Nations Security Council resolutions, for the sake of a just, comprehensive peace in our region to allow both peoples, Israelis and Palestinians, to live in the Holy Land together and forever as good and equal neighbors.

May the star of the Nativity that shone onto Bethlehem more than 2,000 years ago and led the kings of the Orient to come and meet the Prince of Peace be a symbol of hospitality and guide all people of goodwill toward Bethlehem once again to restore its former glory as a place of dignity, a pilgrimage destination and an open city for peace.

[Chuck]

Sam,

I very much understood your point and it was within that context that I responded. What I want to know is what it means to "pursue peace with all men"? Clearly it does not mean that we are to acquiesce to every wind of doctrine, but on the other hand, it appears to mean that we are to diligently and righteously strive to create a unity of fellowship. Remaining uncompromising on those doctrines that are believed to be non-negotiable, cannot be mutually exclusive in creating an atmosphere of brotherly love and peace. How can we expect to enjoy peace among the nations, if those living in the New Jerusalem can't negotiate peace among themselves?

Just because the fulfillment of things promised is in our distant past, does not mean that we aren't to reap continued flesh and blood benefits from those spiritual promises. Isn't inner peace supposed to produce outer peace? However, the strife within the Church testifies to a lack of peace. If the receipt of eternal peace with God isn't causing us to interact differently among our brothers, then it appears there's something wrong.

[Chuck]

This is what I said: "The bigotry and vitriol levied by the Christian Zionists must be opposed by the purity of the Gospel."
To my knowledge I never said anything about "Christian bigotry against Arabs/Muslims". If I did in an earlier comment, my intention was specifically directed at Christian Zionism, which I believe at its core is bigoted.

If you can't afford to buy the DVD's I've referenced or buy a copy of the book I noted, It is not my intention to bypass copyright infringements of these DVD's, but if you will send me a request, I will provide a limited number of folks who can't afford to buy the DVD's, a password so that they can be watched online. I have purchased a number of copies of "Blood Brothers", some for as little as $1.99 plus $3.00 shipping. It may be the best book I've ever read. Without this information, I don't believe we can properly understand the radicalization of Islam.

What I'm NOT suggesting is that there aren't some factions within Islam that aren't incredibly dangerous. However, to the same degree there are factions within the Zionist leadership that are equally as dangerous. One is armed with rocks and blows himself up, while the other launches disproportionate military attacks against innocents. One is considered a terrorist while the other is deemed a freedom fighter. There is a growing movement within the Zionist military to put down their arms and halt the killing of civilians.

"The spiritual peace will lead to physical peace." I wholeheartedly agree. Islam will not be defeated by force. It will be defeated by the Gospel. But at this juncture far too many Arab Muslims believe that they were born on the wrong side of the tracks.

[Jason King]

Chuck, you referenced this passage amongst others:

Rom 12:17 "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. 18If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord."

I'm not disagreeing or nit-picking what you're saying, but can we live without enemies and without strife? We already have strikes against us with Muslims simply for being Christians (and those that claim to be Jews have this problem as well). The Koran is anti-Christian, there is no explaining around this. The NT is anti-anti-Christianity which means that the Scriptures actually call any other teaching other than the gospel a lie. The two groups cannot get along according to either of their sources yet we must love all people. This means we love all people and not all religions. Religion is not people, religion is teaching. Sometimes when we as Christians make direct proclamations from the bible, it offends Muslims. This is because the books are diametrically opposed and only one can be true. This conflict will never end until Islam itself is forgotten like the Baals, the Caesars, Titans and Olympians. But rest assured there will always be an opposing view because people will always love sin more than God's revealed intent.

It seems to me that I do believe the peace Jesus brought was spiritual. The spiritual peace will lead to physical peace. The spiritual unity of the Jewish Christians with the Romans (first century) and "the whole creation" when the gospel went out united their flesh as "one new man":

Eph 2:14 "For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility."

This is the peace I read about in the NT. This is the "fishing of men" and "peacemaking" I read about. Their spiritual peace produced the fruits of the Spirit manifested in the physical world through kindness (peace). The Jews (Sicarii, etc) were the warmakers and they lost the "earth", the Land and the Old Jerusalem. The Christians were peacemakers and inherited the "earth", the Land and the New Jerusalem. Therefore how can we look for "peace" to only come in the form of non-conflict? According to the verse above, JESUS IS OUR PEACE and this was none other than doing away with the distinction of Jew/Gentile.

Jesus made a whip from cords to sternly rebuke the Jews and Paul threatened to do the same to the Corinthians! This means that not all "anger" is evil, and some anger is actually righteous. (I know everyone claims their own anger is righteous, but that is irrelevant, I'm just focusing on Jesus and Paul and what is written about them.) Paul even blinded a man - where's the love manifested through that in the physical appearance? Jesus IS love (agape) yet he made a whip from cords? Did Jesus "hate peace" that day? I don't think so and neither did the disciples:

John 2:17 "His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."

What Jesus did that day anyone with a heart for God should have already done in the Temple but everyone was afraid of appearances and what others thought back then (i.e., Peter denying Jesus). My point is, there really is a difference in spiritual peace (united as one new man - passive) and physical peace (turning the other cheek). One leads to another, but which one did Jesus himself deliver? Physical world peace is up to us ("as far as it depends on you..."), God already gave us our spiritual peace through the gospel. Our struggle is not against flesh and blood which means that Islam itself as a religion - not as a people (Ishmaelites) - is the enemy ("spiritual forces").

Just some thoughts, what do you think?

[Chuck]

Sam, your sarcasm isn't lost on me, but for the sake of the newer folks at SGP (who are not as familiar with your writings and lectures), possibly a smiley face or the like would have been in order. :) Your facetious remarks may be too subtle for public consumption.

It was Covenant Creationist, Ward Fenley, in his lectures "Dispensationalism & Terrorism", that alerted me to the fact that terrorism was associated with Christian Zionism and the commensurate bigoted Middle East policies. Those lectures were the beginning of my paradigm change, as I began to realize how a serious error in eschatology was helping to sow discord throughout the Middle East. So it was apparently clear to him then (2003) that eschatology had serious "here and now" implications.Regardless of our current differences, I will always be grateful to Ward for helping me crystallize my thinking in that regard.

For the sake of redundancy, if the intent of my comments has been lost, I highly recommend every preterist purchase "Blood Brothers" (book), "With God On Our Side" (DVD) and "Little Town of Bethlehem" (DVD). I believe it is imperative that we stand strong on this issue of peace. The bigotry and vitriol levied by the Christian Zionists must be opposed by the purity of the Gospel.

Titus 3:2 (NASB) to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.

Hebrews 12:14 (NASB) Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Matthew 5:9 (NASB) "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

[Jean-Pierre]

LOL !

[Richard Walter Sire]

Yeah, actually I struggle tons with this too! Frankly there are times I just want to lash out and scream, defending the words of Christ and feeling justified to do so... After the last year or so I have endured grief and also have seen the divisions here on this site. I mean it can get really bad! I really really get tired of the strife. But I cannot completely escape the strife. I cannot deny that Christ said some of the words he said, they must mean something. So anyway it is just difficult sometimes... Peace would be great, and should be great. We need to rest in Christ securly and be happy to have peace with Him. I am sometimes dying for lack of any fellowship with like minded preterists. I do not believe there are any around here... It is a very sad time for me in lots of ways... I am very disappointed with churches today. VERY DISAPPOINTED... Am I perfect, no. But I am extremely disappointed. I believe people need to rise up and challenge the establishment (I sound like a populist I guess) churches, the denominational 'complex', traditional, handed down, and sometimes not even contemplated paradigms that people are in... Most people just do not want to deal with eschatology PERIOD!! Very frustrating, and much judgementalism out there. And I suppose someone would accuse me of the very same thing. Yes, I am judging. I am broad brushing. I have 3 gripes in my recent years of my Christian walk... Gripe #1 AUTHORITY. Answer Sola Scriptura and have a Berean attitude, care enough not ask questions, study, read and search out an issue or problem, discuss and if need be challenge church leaders (but nicely) and be open to not being correct. But if stuff just does not make sense, do not give in!!! That is what I believe, I just cannot accept certain things that are crazy, are that at least seem crazy to me.

Gripe #2 The belittling of Christ and His work.

By in large the majority of churches have reduced Christ's work to an ineffectual wish. When I hear such teaching (as I basically heard from someone today) I want to weep!

Gripe #3

The Kingdom is now, everlasting and increasing. What are the implication of that truth? Wow I wish I had face to face fellowship with others that would walk through that with me!!!

Hey, I am really going off topic!!

Peace,
R. Sire

[Chuck]

Walter, you have actually asked a very sobering question with which I have long contemplated. And at times the answer has been NO, I have not been "at peace with those that aren't." This is a constant struggle for me. To allow the peace of God to rule my heart is not easy. I would prefer to take the corrective responsibility into my own hands. But, as I continue to grow in understanding, I realize how that is not only a dead end in terms of breaking the cycle of verbal violence, but it is also a roadblock to the purity of my relationship with Christ.

I am clearly disheartened by the vitriol, but I must continue to allow God to reform my attitudes to the point where my first inclination is to pray and not return fire with fire. This, in my view, is the only way to tear down the walls, not of division, because we may continue to be divided, but the walls of strife. It is imperative that we learn to love those with whom we may vehemently disagree.

Walter, I was a Christian for 33 years and not one time did anyone question my salvation and not one time did anyone refer to me as a heretic. Since becoming a preterist almost 5 years ago, I have been so frustrated that well-meaning Christians have labeled us antichrists, enemies of Christ and damnable heretics. The truth is, they don't know what they're doing. They are being controlled by fear. So instead of striking back at their pejorative rhetoric, God the Holy Spirit is telling me that I must accept them as they are. If they never change...if they continue to address preterists in this manner, the responsibility is on me to show them the love of Christ.

In "Little Town of Bethlehem" (the musical score is worth the price of the movie), I think the most profound comment regarded our enemies. When you love your enemies, you and the enemy actually become one. The enemy loses their distinction because, when you look in the mirror, there is only one. God is challenging me to view all those I differ with in that manner.

Walter, in my view, the Christian community is very similar to the Jewish community in Israel. Both are very militaristic and each is easily frightened. Fear is the greatest, yet worst, motivator. Jews reject Muslims because of what they've been told. Christians also reject Muslims because of stereotypes. Yet, if we want the Gospel to penetrate the Muslim curtain, we MUST begin to see them as people made in the image of God...people who desperately need the love of Christ.

Preterists (and many partial preterists like DeMar), who I believe have the best understanding of Scripture, and who are not being controlled by so many fears, must lead the way.

I've asked God why thing are so difficult. And the clearest answer that is difficult to hear, is that God is preparing us for great things. He's attempting to refine us with fire as the wood, hay and stubble burn to a powder. We have the answer to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict and we have the answer for the world. Christ has already conquered the last enemy and He wants His victorious Gospel to fill the whole earth.

Thanks for your thoughts Richard. I always value your input. I strongly recommend purchasing the movies. Bethlehem is not laced with the Gospel, but it is the intent of the producers to foment the peace of Christ.

[Richard Walter Sire]

Thanks Chuck!!! The question is, will you be at peace with those that aren't??? Just kidding... I agree with you, although I have not seen those movies that you are referring to...

Thanks,
R. Sire